REL Freedom Podcast

Cameron Tope - From W-2 To Rental Freedom

• Mike Swenson

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0:00 | 28:30

What if smarter property management—not just buying more properties—was the real key to financial freedom? Cameron Tope is the founder of Emerson Property Management, and also a real estate investor and entrepreneur who used rental properties to break free from the unpredictability of the oil and gas industry. 

After seeing firsthand how unstable the corporate world could be, he began building a rental portfolio that would eventually allow him to quit his W-2 job and create life on his own terms. When he couldn’t find a property manager he trusted, he built his own company from the ground up. Today, he manages over 300 properties in Houston, owns more than 30 rentals himself, and successfully runs Emerson Property Management remotely—all while living in San Diego, California. 

We break down how he scaled from investor to business owner, the systems that allow him to operate remotely, and why most landlords are losing money through poor management practices. If you want to build cash flow, create operational freedom, and turn real estate into a true wealth-building machine, this episode delivers the blueprint.

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Avoiding Cataclysmic Real Estate Mistakes

SPEAKER_01

Sometimes it's not all like maximizing the profits and maximizing the rents. It's just making sure that you don't make those cataclysmic mistakes and you can stay in the game to let real estate wealth and the appreciation build your wealth over time because it really is a long-term game. I didn't make any money in real estate for five years. I was just reinvesting everything back into the business. But that was the big thing, making sure that I didn't get taken out by some cataclysmic mistake.

Show Intro And Guest Story Setup

SPEAKER_01

Welcome to the Real Freedom Show.

Mike Swenson

We inspire you to pursue your passion to gain time and financial freedom through opportunities and real estate. I'm your host, Mike Swenson. Let's get some real freedom together.com. That's freedomthroughrealestate.com. We put all of our content on there, articles, blogs, tips for you guys to be able to figure out where and how you can take action inside of real estate. And so I'm super excited today to share another great story. Somebody who worked at W-2 was able to leave, built location freedom, now lives in San Diego while building a rental portfolio and property management company in Houston. So we've got Cameron Taupe, founder of Emerson Property Management, manages over 30 properties in Houston and owns a portfolio of 30 plus rentals himself. Excited to hear your short story of how you were able to escape, build a company, and also live many states away and still run and manage that company. So uh Cameron, thank you so much for being on the show. Mike, I really appreciate you having me, man.

SPEAKER_01

And uh yeah, excited to dig into this and share some things with your audience. Hopefully that they can use, like you said.

Mike Swenson

Give us the background, how you got into the rental space, and we'll kind of just build the

Oil Bust Sparked The Real Estate Shift

Mike Swenson

story from there.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So I graduated in 2013. I had probably $30,000, $40,000 worth of student loans, and I worked with British Petroleum. So I moved to Houston originally from Ohio. And the reason I did that is because there was a hundred percent job placement at the time for petroleum engineers. So I'm like, you know, nobody was paying for my school. So I was like, I have to make sure I get a job when I come out. And that was and I mean, we started in 2010, so it was right after the crash and everything. So, you know, everybody was kind of concerned about jobs, the economy, and whatnot. But I graduated in 13, moved to Houston with BP, and then oil was like 120 a barrel when I started, and within six to 12 months, it wasn't that long. Oil went down to like 30 bucks. And people were freaking out. I was new, I was a petroleum engineer, which meant I couldn't really do some of the stuff mechanical engineers could do or chemical engineers. I was very laser focused on that industry, and it was in the tank. It wasn't just BP, it was everybody. So people were frantic, I or frantic, I was frantic, but there were some old timers who were Joe cool. They they were relaxed, they weren't worried. It was almost like they kicked their feet up on the desk, like, I've seen this, no big deal. So I started asking them, and I'm like, you know, why are what's the deal here? You know, you guys seem like no big deal. Give me, give me the secret. And all of them, I would say almost all of them, had bought real properties. And they had three, four, five, maybe ten homes. And they said, Man, we paid a handful of these off. This is a cyclical business like the economy. And in down times, we live off the rental income, good times, I'll jump back in the job market, no big deal. So that was really the light bulb there that went off. And then that led me to bigger pockets and just start digging in and just consuming as much information as I could, and then start buying rental properties. And from there, the rental properties spun into well, how am I gonna manage this with a W-2 job? Couldn't find a property manager, and so I said, okay, that's it, I'm gonna do it myself. Then start having friends and family asked, and then turned it into a real business, and then left uh BP in in 2020. I think we incorporated in 2019, and then in 2020, um left BP was able to, I did about a year overlap, and then um, yeah, really started turning on about 23, taking on new clients. And today we manage just about 300 properties across the greater Houston area.

Mike Swenson

Yeah, that's super exciting. Talk a little bit about being in your W-2 and maybe finding that first property or two, because I think so many people stand in that spot and they just live in the paralysis analysis, or they're not willing to take the leap. Obviously, you're more sophisticated on your your portfolio acquisition side now than where you started, but just talk about maybe some of those feelings or kind of what you did to get from I own zero properties to now I'm in the game.

Escaping Analysis Paralysis With Smart Risks

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and I'm an engineer by training, right? So I'm like very I you can get into that where you're just like head down, like, I need more information, I need more, I need more, I want to know every detail. And that can put you in that analysis paralysis situation, and then you never get out, and then you let deals go by and go by. So I do agree, that's the hardest thing to take the leap of faith with knowing enough where you're not gonna get burned, but you do you don't want to, you're going to make mistakes. It's okay, it's going to happen. You're not going to be perfect. And so I would say getting the right books, getting some mentors, going to events, and just listening to people who have one, two, three, four doors. Like you said, the people, you know, it's like when you build a business and you listen to these guys like Bezos and uh Zuckerberg. And it's like, they're so far away from where I'm at today that they have they're not relating to what I'm going through today. So don't go to the person that's got 100 doors or 200 doors or 300 doors. Talk to the person that's got the the one or two doors. And how did they do that? And exactly like what you're talking about, Mike. So I would say get enough information, but be comfortable that there's a little bit unknown. Look at the major risks and like evictions, major plumbing, roof, foundation issues. So those were the big things I was like, okay, I want to avoid getting taken out of the game. Sometimes it's not all like maximizing the profits and maximizing the rents. It's just making sure that you don't make those cataclysmic mistakes and you can stay in the game to let real estate wealth and the appreciation build your wealth over time because it it really is a long-term game. I didn't make any money in real estate for five years. I was just reinvesting everything back into the business. But that was the big thing, making sure that I didn't get taken out by some cataclysmic mistake. And so, and I also bought, you know, relatively uh cheap properties uh in the beginning, which, like you said, I'm a little more sophisticated now, and I've realized that those might not be the best for my situation now. And so I knew I wasn't gonna be able, or that that buying, I didn't buy a $900,000 building or $900,000, you know, uh self-storage place. I was buying around $100,000, $150,000 properties that I could float the three, four, five hundred dollar a month mortgage if if it hit the pan, you know, Mike. It's not, you know, you hear these people syndicate and it's like, man, if something goes south, you got a twenty, thirty, forty thousand dollar a month uh note to pay. And so I took, I didn't do the grant cardone thing and go big into the 30-unit complex to start. And I think that's the thing, is just take the baby steps, get that first deal. You'll learn so, so much and make sure that you have your financial house in order. So I had that good W-2 job. I was like, okay, I might not have this forever, but I had a budget, I had everything in line, and I'm like, okay, I have some money set aside that I can make that first acquisition. And I do see, you know, with the no money down financing and some of those odds and ends, it's like, well, hey, how can you put as little in the deal as possible? How can you do this? Some of those can create a little bit of risk. So just making sure that you have your financial house in order. Don't quit your job to jump into real estate. I hear that advice sometimes. Use your job and use your uh your you know, your good financial foundation to buy that first property.

Mike Swenson

So, in terms of finding those early deals, was it friend looking on the MLS? Was it, you know, sending outreaching, finding distressed properties, or kind of how did you source those earlier deals?

Finding Early Deals Through People

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, the first handful, I would say some of them came from a mix of wholesalers and some of them came from a mix of network. So I do I hear this advice and I don't know why it kind of goes in one ear and out the other for most folks, but it's tell everybody you know that what you're doing, that you're buying real estate. And I had a family friend and I was telling them about buying real estate, and they're like, hey, actually, I've got some properties. I'm in retirement, I'm ready to cash these out. I've held these for 30 years and I'm ready to sell. So it was totally off market. That was that was uh at least two of those. And then the others came from a really good wholesaler um in town that was really local, that was uh knowledgeable. I met at a networking event. I went out and again kind of tried to start building my network, building my team, and found a good wholesaler, found a good title company. And again, you just continue to talk to people and you see who continues to show up at these events and and who's doing deals. But yeah, you've got to the the easiest way is just tell people that you know or in the area that you're investing what you're doing. And you'll find like, oh, I actually know, you know, my I know this other guy who's selling a property. Maybe I'll hook you guys up and see see if it works. And you get an opportunity or in a crack at a property that is totally off market.

Mike Swenson

And then on in kind of in terms of financing and and on the lending side, what steps did you take early on to get that ball rolling?

BRRRR Financing And Building A Deal Team

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that I use the Burr method and interest rates, you know, back then were three, four percent. And I have several mortgages today that are 3.25. And what I did is I would find these dilapidated properties, and some of them I actually went out and put bandit signs out, and I was trying to source them off market as well. And I just tried to buy undervalue properties and then do that value add and then do a cash out refinance. And then I got hooked up with a good private money lender, and in 2017, I was buying about it was a property about every six weeks, and it was you know, it was crazy because in 2013, again, it took me a while. I picked up like one, and then maybe it was another six to 12 months, so I picked up another. But in 2017, I had built that team. So it took me almost four years to really have everybody lined up. My my private money lender, my, you know, getting the deal sourced uh with the wholesaler and and having lead flow. And then, you know, the my real estate agent. I use an agent to lease the properties. So I had everybody lined up and it was just then it was just turn and burn.

Mike Swenson

I think that's what what's important for people to hear is you learn lessons as you start and you start to piece things together as you go. And so it's hard not to listen, and even for you, like to say, oh, you know, managing 300 units, you've got 30 doors, but it started with one, right? And it it wasn't that long ago. And so if you can do it, somebody else can do it too. So you've got to be patient yet aggressive enough to be able to take action versus just sitting on your hands, but one thing leads to the next, and and you level up and level up and level up as you go.

SPEAKER_01

It's just yeah, it's a I mean, perfectly said it's like compound interest. It's like in the beginning, you really don't see those steps, but then you're comfortable taking down a portfolio of three or four or five. And then, you know, you'll you'll build your portfolio over time. I think, you know, and I I did this too. It's like I wanted to be out of BP so fast. I'm like, I gotta get out of this because I thought they were gonna kick me out before I was gonna be able to leave. And you cannot make, you know, this is an old Warren Buffett saying, but you can't make a baby in one month by getting nine women pregnant. And it's just certain things take time. And that is real estate. It's like, we want to get in, we want that cash flow, we want this, but uh I've made way more money in appreciation over the past, you know, 10, 15 year career than I have in in cash flow. And but I wanted cash flow to get out of my job. But man, once once it um, you know, that five-year mark, Mike, is where I really think once you've held an asset for about five years, you really see some of that debt pay down start picking up, you really see rents hopefully have appreciated and you get to to reap some of those benefits.

Mike Swenson

So if you're doing Burr method, you've got people helping you because you're not swinging a hammer yourself because you're you're working your job. And I know Houston is a really big market. And so you could find something way over in this corner and way over in the opposite corner. And so talk about kind of finding good people to help you in terms of you know, do the updates and the repairs, and then kind of strategy-wise, was it find a good deal, you know, the location doesn't matter, or is it you trying to kind of find stuff that were in similar areas, or how did that work?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that's

Houston Market Reality And Hiring Experience

SPEAKER_01

and you know, that is huge in certain markets, like where I'm from in Ohio, they're very small markets, right? But Houston is huge, it's almost a hundred miles from one side of the you know, the main outer belt to the other. I mean, it's it is a huge market. So something that works in one side of town is not the same. You literally can have an appreciation in cash flow market within a 15-minute drive in Houston, or maybe 30, depending, probably an hour with traffic. But um, I in the beginning, I was looking for cash flow. So I was had no, you know, uh criteria on three, two in this zip code. It was more like, okay, do the numbers pencil out. Am I going to be able to get cash flow out of this? Yes or no? If yes, I would buy it. If no, I'd move on. Now I'm much more selective on like, okay, a desirable area, especially in the supply glut that we have right now with, you know, back then in 13, 14, really all the way up to 23, we were in that shortage. We had cheap financing. So you could put lipstick on a pig, you would get a bunch of applications, you could find a bunch of stuff. But now it's it's much more difficult with interest rates and and prices. But going back to the team, I would say the biggest thing is using experienced people. When you start out, you don't want to go to the agent like, okay, I'm I need a good leasing agent or I want to work with a good agent to help me source deals. You don't want to go with the other person that's new. I see this a lot, like, well, okay, hey, you're new, I'm new, let's try to figure this out and do that. No. That, you know, it's it's the blind leading the blind. And you want to go with the experienced person who's seen it, who's cut their teeth, who's can say, Cameron, you don't want to do that. Mike, you don't want to do that. Let's go this way or stay away from that market. And they can they have access to the data. They can say, 10 days on market over here. Hey, I lease property super quick over here. It's desirable. Whereas you might not know. So building a team of experienced people, once you get experienced, then you can say, okay, hey, I know what I know the downsides, I know the risks. So I will, you know, take a leap of faith on this young guy or gal who's, you know, really ambitious and I'll give them this lead or give them this. But in the beginning, you have to use the experienced people. Do not step over dollars to pick up pennies. And I see that a lot in the beginning. So building that team, go to networking events, see who's doing deals. I just, I mean, it really has to be word of mouth. And unfortunately, you're gonna have to get burned. Hopefully not. Again, not so bad, but you're probably gonna get burned from a contractor or you know, an agent that tells you something that may might not be 100% true, or maybe they they put you in a deal that doesn't pencil out the way you thought it would. So it's just learning that and learning those areas, especially in bigger markets like Houston. You know, I'm still learning stuff about markets in Houston. I mean, we know generally, but you know, and things change. Places gentrify. So you just you have to keep your finger on the pulse. And if you're not gonna keep your finger on the pulse, you have to have a solid team of people. How are you gonna source the deals? How are you gonna fix those deals up? How are you gonna get them leased? And then how are you gonna maintain them?

From Self-Managing To Property Management Company

Mike Swenson

That's kind of where my next thought was going here in terms of the management side. So you mentioned you got somebody who can do the leases. Talk about your journey, you know, thinking about finding a manager, doing it yourself, to ultimately, you know, starting your own property management company.

SPEAKER_01

Well, when I started, I wanted to do it all. And I do recommend in certain certain faces, depending upon where you're at in your life, if you're a 22-year-old and you're ready to set the world on fire, all means do your management. Like you got time, maybe you don't have a wife and kids. So, like, do your thing. Like you have the you can burn the midnight oil. Whereas, you know, if you're established 40, 50s and you're like, okay, I need to start building up some retirement and you have three kids, it's gonna be difficult to do some of this, or potentially, you know, you can buy low, low um maintenance assets. But I so I started with everything. I put the sign in the arm with the four rent and I was taking the calls, and it was a nightmare. That was a thing that ate up a lot of my time initially. And so I was like, okay, I want to hire that out to the to this leasing specialist or the leasing agent. And that's all that she did for me then. Um once that I had that down, I had my contractors already down from fixing these properties up. I had that down. So then I would just collect rent via Zell and get into my account. I I tried to create some spreadsheets, you know, being an engineer to keep stuff in line, but it was it started to get busy with five, six, seven doors. Things started getting a little haywire. And that's when I started looking like, okay, I'm still working, I'm gonna work as long as I can, or until my portfolio is is replacing at least a majority of my income. And so I was like, I might let me test the waters and some managers. Let's see, you know, who who are at these events. And I reached out, Mike, I had people blow me off. I probably had, I think it was somewhere between five and ten doors, five, seven doors, somewhere in there when I started reaching out. People blow me off. People, you know, treat me like a child, you know, and I was 25 at the time, but like, oh yeah, you don't know what you're doing. Let me tell. And it was condescending and it just wasn't a great experience. And I interviewed people from just a dude in a truck with a hammer that would go around and no licensing, no nothing, versus you know, large companies that had a thousand doors. And I just couldn't find the right mix. So I said, that's it. I'm just gonna do it myself. I've got my team already, I just need to put some processes and systems in it. And that's when it was like, and being an engineer, I was very much like system driven. So I'm like, okay, every time we do a term, we're starting to bright checklists out. Every time we have a tenant with a lease uh question or a maintenance question, this is what we're gonna do. And we just started building that. And I just continued to do that. And then I had some friends and family who started saying, Hey, would you manage my properties? Sure. You know, what's one more? Probably got to 30-ish doors. I think I probably had 20 between the high teens, low 20s at the time, and the others were some friends and family. And that's when I hired my first uh employee in 2018. And then really in 2019, I'm like, okay, this can be a real, you know, it fulfilled me in the front of helping investors. Like I felt like I almost had a duty because real estate uh was giving me financial freedom and I hadn't left yet, but it I could see the benefits and the power behind it. So I felt almost a reciprocity to give back to the community. And this was a way I could do that is become the property manager that I couldn't find.

Mike Swenson

Was most of your stuff single family, or did you have small multi-family or a couple small multi.

SPEAKER_01

Uh Houston really isn't built out for multi-family like a lot of other cities. It's a lot of ones and twos. Um, there were yeah, mostly ones and twos. I mean, I think I have one triplex, but a lot of single family.

Mike Swenson

So you hired your first employee.

SPEAKER_01

Were you still using the leasing person? Yes. I was using that person, then basically this one as my assistant, and then slowly phase that out where she, the the assistant, had learned all this stuff so she could. And when you're doing your own properties, you can hire people and do whatever you want. In Texas, once you start doing third party management, you need to be licensed. You need to be a licensed agent. So then I was like, okay, if I'm gonna do this, I got to get licensed, got licensed, got under a broker and started that process. And now, you know, I've been a broker for a handful of years.

Mike Swenson

So I think the value in that is you didn't do everything soup to nuts yourself at the beginning. You had people that were helping, and you were kind of just in that director manager role, just keeping the balls up in the air, to where you got to a scale where you could then take some of that stuff in-house. And so I think for people that are listening, that's key that that you don't have to do it all. Some people think, oh, I've got to learn everything myself, and so I'm just gonna do it all myself. And at that time you're still working a job, so you couldn't. So in some ways, it was the the benefit was there that you you couldn't rely on doing it on your own. But yeah, once you got to that size of scale, now it's like, okay, I'll bring that stuff back in-house and then have my own people handle that.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. And it's and that's what even what we're doing now. You know, we use third-party vendors for certain things now. Um, and we're paying them some six uh six figures, some mitts, six figures, and it's like, okay, at what point do we want to bring this in-house? Uh, is that specialty best with this? Is that liability best with that? So, yeah, it's just like different levels. You're like, okay, now I can split. Instead of me wearing every single hat, you can split. But even when you start out, like you said, it's like if you're not gonna go in and do the handyman work, which I that's probably one I really, really disagree with. I don't think people should go learn the guts of plumbing and do all that, especially some of the risk and tenants' rights. It's just, you know, it's not fair to the tenant if you're going in and trying to like figure out plumbing and they continue to have issues or HVAC stuff. But um, so that's one I would definitely find a good person for. And then the leasing side, that's another very quick one. Once you get a good tenant, everything you you know, if you have a bad tenant, that creates a 12-month, you know, horror film.

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Mike Swenson

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Moving To San Diego And Going Remote

Mike Swenson

You're building your company. Uh, where does deciding to go to San Diego fill into that? And how did you figure out how to continue to keep the business afloat as you guys are moving out to California?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So in 20, I think it was 21 or 22, my wife, well, at the time, I think girlfriend, fiance, moved to Houston. And so we were just talking about various things. The business, I'd left my corporate job, things were going well in the management business. We were continuing to grow. And I think at the time I probably had um 150 doors, somewhere around there. A business was self-sufficient and we didn't have any responsibilities. And we visited San Diego and we're like, wow, this place is incredible. And my wife was between jobs, and we're like, start looking. Let's see, just see what's out here. And three months later, she had an offer. And I really just took it back to if I can't make this work remotely, then I really don't have a business. Like it's really truly not a business. If I can't make this work with if I have to be here to solve every single problem that comes up, then I don't have a business. I just have another job. So that was it. And I think that allowed me to build better systems, similar to the necessity piece of having to hire everything else. Like, I couldn't be there. So I had to build a better team. I had to build a more robust system. So that um that was the decision. I was like, let's do it. And the business now we're like I said, we're almost at 300 doors, and it's been, I've been here three years. I go back every quarter just to, you know, um see the team and and check in with vendors, and we do an annual event every year, and it's just it's been phenomenal, Mike. We've grown more since I've been here than we did before

Scaling Service Through Growth And Focus

SPEAKER_01

that.

Mike Swenson

How hands-on are you right now? Do you have a very specific role or you do you have a team that's kind of running it all, or what is your your daily look like?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, about six months ago, I was still buried in operations, you know, very much like, you know, honing the system in to make sure that we're delivering the best service we possibly can. And then we realized like we actually need more growth. And I used to have this limiting belief that if we got bigger, we would actually deliver more service. Because when I was hired trying to interview some folks, it was terrible. Like some of these bigger companies, again, I'd talk to somebody, you know, it's like go on the phone tree, talk to these people all over the world. They'd set me up with an appointment, they would get missed, very little, you know, savviness or experience with these people I would talk to. So that was in my mind, like, man, I don't really want to grow. But then when you get into it and you're like similar to what we were talking about earlier, it's like, hey, the more we grow, the more we can bring in-house, the more control we have, the better service we deliver. So that's why this year we are focusing on growth. So now I've been positioned to, we've hired a salesperson and a marketing person. And then my job is to generate leads now. Um, I still meet with the team, you know, on a daily basis, but I'm basically working with the marketing and sales guide to get more doors so that we can deliver a better service.

Mike Swenson

What a great story to be able to do that. Now, when you first started and you were looking at in, you know, your first property or two, how much in the back of your mind was thinking, like, okay, this is where I could see this going, or are you just thinking oil and gas till my job falls out and this is just a happy accident?

SPEAKER_01

I think I I really think it's a Bob Ross happy accident type thing here. I I mean, it was like the first thing, and I was always a big planner, but I would have never thought that I'd be in property management back in 20 after I graduated. I never would have thought that. So it was like the first hurdle was okay, I want to be able to pay off my student loans and take a little bit more control of my destiny and not have, you know, get fired or laid off and have $30,000, $40,000 in loans and not be able to find a job and be working at Taco Bell. Um, and then it was, okay, now I built this up, but I I realized that you can have a really good property, but you can run it into the ground. You can let tenants run rampant. Um, so it was like, okay, how do I get this management side down now to make sure that these assets are taken care of? So that over the 10, 15, 20 years I own them, they continue to go up in value, they continue to uh bear fruit. And then it was, wow, this is super fulfilling. I really enjoy this. And let's make this thing the real deal. And then it was, okay, I just want to keep it small so I can control everything and make sure everything's awesome. And then it was like, wait, we can do more when we have more. We can do more. And that's the thing. We we do so much more now with quarterly business reviews, strategic annual reviews with owners. Um, you know, our owners have a dedicated asset manager. You know, it was like when it was just me and 130 doors, I was doing so much. And, you know, I had a couple people on the team, but I couldn't afford the salaries to hire these people. So it was just, it's now we're able, we have seven, eight folks on the team. And it's like we continue to grow. And yeah, we really want to, you know, own the Houston market and be the best property management company

Long-Term Vision And Where To Connect

SPEAKER_01

in Houston.

Mike Swenson

That's what I was thinking next is, you know, yeah, what's what's the future plans for you? And and obviously you're you're positioned in a a market where you could do everything you'd ever want to do and never have to leave because it's big enough. There's plenty of meat on the bone there for you guys to tackle.

SPEAKER_01

And that's it. I think, you know, I see some folks who are like, oh, I can't wait to go to Austin or Dallas or make this multi-state. We just want to own Houston. We just want to be the best property management company in Houston and offer, offer a resource, you know, to the new folks that come in that are like, hey, you know, I'm I'm unsure. I've got like almost 600 YouTube videos. We give do so much free stuff to try to give back to the community. And then, you know, if you do buy property and you find yourself in an eviction or in something, you know, we're we're here to help. And I'm always, we have again a dedicated salesperson now, too, to be able to answer the phone and walk you through some of those scenarios. And if you don't feel comfortable handling it, we're happy to help where we can.

Mike Swenson

That's awesome. Well, Cameron, thank you so much for for coming on and sharing your story with the audience. We never even got into like nuts and bolts of property management. And so we could maybe have you on another time and and dig into the the one-on-one of management. But for people that want to reach out to you, learn more about you, how can they do so?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, just go to Emerson Property Management.com. All there, again, there's so much free resources there, and our socials are on there. And if you want to reach out and you need anything, the contact forms there, and we're happy to walk you through a deal or what have you. But you know, anything in the greater Houston area, I think we can we can help.

Mike Swenson

Thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story and excited to see where your your company continues to grow. Appreciate you, bye. Thanks for having me on there.